Fire PvP lack of talent points.

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Fire PvP lack of talent points.

Post by Гость on Mon 15 Mar 2010, 5:08 pm

Hi. I've specced fire on my mage and i really enjoy it. But one thing i dislike is the way you always have to prior either utility, damage or mana management. I think fire would be alot better if we had access all 3. The reason i bring this up now is that i just found out that you're adding Pyroblast to Empowered Fire and Torment of the Weak. I think that's great, but as I'm already lacking ~10 talent points for a 'dream' fire specc it's just not possible... I really think you should reduce the amount of talent points needed for alot of talents. Examples of prioritizements(duno how thats spelled lol) I have to make right now is:

Damage:
Ignite:5 talent points - 40% of your fire crit becomes a DoT on your target. Crazy damage. Example: You crit 10k with pyro. You get a DoT that lasts 4 seconds that ticks for 1k each tick. And with good gear, fire mages often have 40%> fire crit, so it proccs all the time. Extremly much damage, almost impossible to choose away for utility talents. I personally am using 4/5 of this atm.

Molten Fury:2 talent points - 12% more damage against targets below 35%. Great to finish off peoples. Awsome to finish off healers. I personally can't afford this tho.

Mana Management:
Master of Elements:3 talent points - Crits refunds 30% of the spells mana cost. Would be so awsome to have, as fire mages goes oom quite fast. Especially concidering this is one of the only mana management effect that doesnt scale with spirit and PvE gear, this one would be perfect if it was affordable for PvPers. Shame it isn't affordable tho. I personally am not using this one, sadly.

Pyromaniac:3 talent points - Increases crit chance by 3% and allows 50% of mana reg to continue while casting. I personally go 2/3 in this one as the crit+mana reg together makes it pretty irresistable.

Empowered Fire:3 talent points - Increases Fireball/Frostfireball damage by 10% of your spellpower + each time ignite deals damage (it deals damage 4times/crit you do. In other words, all the time), you regen 2% of your base mana. Once again, this one is as good for PvP as it is for PvE as it regens from base mana. And in the upcomming patch they're going to add pyroblast to the damage increasement... Another 3point talent to concider sacrificing utility/damage for.... I personally do not use this talent, yet.

Utility:
Burning determination: 2 talent points - Whenever you're interupted/silenced you become immune from getting interupted/silenced again for the next 20 seconds. Would love to use this talent, but cant afford it as it would impact too much on my manareg/damage...

Firestarter:2 talent points - Whenever your Dragon's breath/Blastwave deals damage, your next flamestrike becomes instant and costs no mana. Great fun idea for a talent! This one really raises the skillcap of fire if you ask me. But is it worth it concidering what you have to sacrifice? Probably not, and most peoples doesn't specc into this... But I do anyways in the sacrifice of 1/5 of ignite it and 1/3 of Pyromaniac because it's a damn fun talent to have to spot rogues and do mana-free AoE damage!

Not to mention glyphs, where I'm forced to use Glyph for Mana gem, where I'd actually rather have Glyph of Living bomb.

Those are some examples. I know that you're supposed to prior between talents when you're speccing. And ofcourse I dont want you to be able to choose everything. I'm only asking for a few small adjustments such as for example ignite becomming a 2-3 point talent, down from 5, and some others too. Just to loose up ~5 talent points or so. It will still be alot of prioring, but you wont feel like you're missing something all the time. And let's face it. Fire is faaar from OP. Another ~5 talent points wouldn't hurt the balance of the game, it would just help firemages into becomming more viable :)

Thanks for reading and sorry for poor english!'
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Re: Fire PvP lack of talent points.

Post by Jade on Thu 12 Aug 2010, 3:28 pm

This article is meant to list theorycrafted raiding builds, cookie-cutter PvP specs and other mage standards/ideas for reference and new player guidance.

For help creating your own build and personalising the ones found here, take a look at our mage talent analysis.
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Re: Fire PvP lack of talent points.

Post by Pimmeh on Thu 12 Aug 2010, 3:31 pm

Fire
(17/54/0) Fire PvP
This is a cookie cutter fire PvP spec. It is very RNG dependent and has no main nuke. There are many tactics to playing this build. These include, rapid Scorches to proc a Hot Streak, using Dragons Breath to get off a Frostfire Bolt (damage + snare), following up with a Blastwave and Fire Blast, all while retaining use of instant casts such as a Nova/IL/CoC/Arcane Explosion to proc impacts. Molten Armor works for proccing Impact for both melee and ranged attacks. Frost and Fire Ward have a high chance to reflect fire and frost spells with minor glyphs for added effect. A PvP fire mage is always on his toes adapting to different situations. It isn't as consistent as other tree's for PvP, but it can be entertaining and effective.
(0/53/18) Frostfire PvP
This is very similar to the above build with the exception that it adds the possibility for Shatter combos and Icy Veins within a fire spec. It adds slightly more survivability to melee classes through Ice Armor buffs and more snares. However, the lack of Imp. Counterspell, Magic Absorption, and Magic Attunement can make fighting other casters significantly more difficult. The point into Imp. Blizzard is simply to provide slightly more utility inside a battlegrounds environment by adding a snare/freeze to Blizzard, this point may be removed if needed.
(19/52/0) Living Bomb + Improved Counterspell PvP
This my latest PvP fire spec and find it really fun to play with. Basically I tried to balance this spec not only to make it fun, but also viable for fighting different classes. Magic Absortion and Counterspell are good for fighting other casters, while Arcane Fortitude, Impact and Blazing Speed, are pretty useful when fighting melee classes. Also I tried to keep a focus on instant nukes (Pyroblast when Hot Streak procs) or quick casting spell like with Improved Scorch, Improved Fire Blast and Hot Streak. Also, as a little tip, I'll say that I use some instant cast spells from other specs such as Ice Lance, Cone Of Cold and of course, Frost Nova and Arcane Explosion (and this is why I've also added 3 points in Spell Impact) just to keep the constant dps going. As for the glyphs, I picked those based on my personal experience since Glyph of Evocation is a must for me as a way of healing quickly without having to stop and eat, and as for the Glyph of the Penguin... who doesn't like to see their foes wandering around looking like a cute and harmless penguin? ;).
(27/44/0) "Firecane" Arcane Potency/Clearcasting/Hot Streak
This is a fire/arcane hybrid build that is quite viable in both BG's and Arena. It places points in Arcane Concentration, POM and Arcane Potency in the Arc tree to trigger Hot Streak. I find Hot streak procs FAR more frequently then a deep fire build, as you gain 30% crit chance after gaining the clearcasting effect. The fire tree also picks up blast wave and dragons breath for more control and all the other fire goodness pre-Living Bomb and Burnout. Don't forget to Cone of Cold your target for Torment the Weak. My basic spell rotation is scorch until a hot streak (which happens very quickly with arcane potency and clearcasting) and then pom pyro etc. Extremely fun and high survivability fire build. Note: 1 point can be taken out of Fire Power to put an additional point into Blazing Speed for additional survivability and breathing room. This spec was produced by "Imageine" of Frostmourne-US

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Re: Fire PvP lack of talent points.

Post by Coik on Thu 12 Aug 2010, 3:32 pm

Arcane

This spec is meant for those who have more experience with the arcane tree. You will rely more on your arcane spells, mostly not [PoM + Pyroblast] but more on [PoM + Arcane Blast] its a spec that works well in PvP. Also great versus paladins. Keep in mind some people seem to not have noticed that impact is not only for fire. It works globally now.


This spec utilizes crit damage modifiers (similar to the Frostfire Bolt PvE spec above) but instead of using fire as it's base, it optimizes the PvP power of arcane. Uses the root and snare mechanics to minimize enemy mobility while using Shatter, Spell Power, and Torment the Weak to provide large crits. Great for high burst damage. Updated for 3.2 to incorporate Permafrost's new anti-healing effect.

Arcane Barrage + PoM + Pyroblast
Combines the power of the 3 minute mage spec, and adds impact for a stun, and world in flames for a better crit chance.
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Re: Fire PvP lack of talent points.

Post by Jade on Thu 12 Aug 2010, 3:34 pm

Frost
(20/0/51) Frost + TTW
An arena standard, this frost build has not only the most survivability, but also has the most burst potential frost can achieve through Deep Freeze and Brain Freeze, boosted by Torment the Weak. Improved Counterspell is also obtained, as are most utility frost talents. It also includes Magic Absorption, Arcane Fortitude, and Magic Attunement for added defenses. With this, you can switch between Ice and Mage Armor as situations require. Some mages that group with other casters may prefer to drop a single point from Spell Impact to pick up Focus Magic. It is also advised to attain around 11% haste, to be able to get off the very lethal Deep Freeze + FB + IL + IL combo.
(20/0/51) Frost + TTW + Nuke&Surv
This build is redesigned by the base build Frost + TTW entirely for arena. This build has the most survivability as the base build, but with a difference: some talents were removed to prefer some useful arena ones. With the most survivability, this build offers the most high damage with talents like Arctic Winds that were removed in the base build. It has Improved Counterspell, Torment the Weak, Deep Freeze and 2/3 Brain Freeze.
(28/0/43) Frost w/Prismatic Cloak
The 'Frismatic' build combines the survivability and utility of frost with Prismatic Cloak and Presence of Mind. The frost part of the build can be customized as necessary to obtain specific talents such as Permafrost.
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Re: Fire PvP lack of talent points.

Post by dgerson on Thu 12 Aug 2010, 3:35 pm

Hybrid

Mage-

A very strange spec like never seen before. It uses the best things for pvp in all the trees. You can shield up and survive while you have the fun of nuking with fire! A few points have been spend in arcane for more survivability + TTW + presence of mind. this means you can instantly pyroblast someone's (...) every 3 min and if you keep the balance between fire and frost spells you will benefit from TTW. if that annoying rogue get's too close, just blastwave him a few yard back and nuke him!! this is a fun and experimental tree made by Durator on Magtheridon. hope you'll enjoy the alternative "hybrid" spec!
There are a few points of contention with this spec: Glyph of Ice Barrier is useless without Ice Barrier itself, Blast Wave can't knock back a rogue when it's glyphed, and Glyph of Frost/Fire Ward would be more effective with the 3 points in Molten Shields rather than Frost Warding.

Magic Shields
A crazy hypothetical spec that incorporates two synergetic talents: Incanter's Absorption and Ice Barrier. The idea of this spec is to pick up on a lot of the early-tier Frost talents that give control and mana efficiency, while also taking advantage of those underrated Arcane PvP talents. The playstyle of this spec would be loosely focused on firing off Arcane Blasts whenever possible, and unleashing Arcane Missiles to take advantage of Arcane Blast's wonderful side-effect, while keeping the enemy at bay with your various snares and slows. This spec also optimizes on reducing the incoming damage for when your snares just aren't enough. By keeping up an Ice Barrier whenever possible (especially a glyphed one), the Mage can already absorb an impressive amount of damage. Then include the potentially limitless absorption of Mana Shield-- greatly enhanced by the mana-retention and -generation talents taken into account-- and you'll have a Mage who can take a lot harder hits than you'd think. Overall, this spec is an intersting twist and a unique hybridization that will help you last a lot longer when your Arathi Basin queue procs. Developed by Frosfye of Stormreaver.
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Re: Fire PvP lack of talent points.

Post by Drules on Thu 12 Aug 2010, 3:37 pm

Frost is no longer used for raiding, period. That said, frost is still a viable spec for dungeons, leveling, and heroics, where crowd control is still valued highly. The builds listed here are kept for posterity's sake; they should be used as a reference to how frost raiding used to be done, and hopefully these builds may serve as a starting point for any mages interested in frost theorycrafting.
his build uses DPS cooldowns for maximum benefit, which means as often as possible for boss fights with no "burn periods", but also means saving cooldowns for when the boss is vulnerable and DPS needs to increase. Blizzard has admitted that frost is currently low on raid DPS and it remains that way even after a minor buff in patch 3.3. If no one else in your raid provides Replenishment, Frost is the way to go, but other classes can provide that buff at little or no DPS loss to themselves.
This build uses the best dps and mana preservation talents for lasting boss fights. Moves, such as "Cold as Ice" are not needed, as there is a glyph allowing water elemental to stay out at all times. If someone else in the group has a replenishment skill, then "Enduring winter" can be switched out for other talents such as "Arcane mind" for a slightly larger mana pool.
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Re: Fire PvP lack of talent points.

Post by Гость on Thu 12 Aug 2010, 3:39 pm

Leveling as fire

The Fire tree lacks the control and survivability of frost, but has in exchange higher single-target damage and the ability to kill mobs faster one by one. It sacrifices mana-utility for higher power. A basic fire leveling build at 30 would be the following: fire leveling.

For further improvement when leveling, see the mage talent analysis. Your very first talent should always be Improved Fireball if fire.

Fire relies on critical strikes to maximize its damage, so taking talents such as Critical Mass and Pyromaniac is useful. Burnout and Ignite increase your crit damage by a lot, so it is imperative that you fill them out when possible. Always pick up 1-point talents (Combustion, Dragon's Breath) as soon as they become available. If you play with a glass cannon approach then this is probably for you.
Leveling as arcane

The arcane tree focuses on mana conservation. It does not have the high damage of frost or fire but has higher control than even frost. If you play a defensive, conservative style then this would probably suit you. This has a focus on grouping and is difficult to solo with because of its low damage when compared to the other two trees.
5-mans and soloing/farming

This section deals with a less objective matter and is very subject to personal bias and custom builds.
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Re: Fire PvP lack of talent points.

Post by Zahira on Thu 12 Aug 2010, 3:39 pm

High damage on trash due to not having to Scorch, high mana-efficiency allowing for chain-pulling on instances/farming, and high survivability through tools such as Deep Freeze and Ice Barrier. AoE is very good thanks to Improved Blizzard triggering Fingers of Frost, which in turn triggers Shatter. Instance boss encounters are short, favoring the high burst frost can deliver through cooldown stacking of Water Elemental, Icy Veins and damage trinkets.
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Re: Fire PvP lack of talent points.

Post by Josh on Thu 12 Aug 2010, 3:41 pm

Code:
[b]Fire 5-Mans/Suicide Aoe Build[/b]
:)

This build is often looked over as most casters never journey into the depths of the melee reigon, but it should be noted that this build has a lot to offer. Although fire isn't known to be mana efficient, this spec has pulls where you spend almost less than 2000 mana per pull, with a lot of burst damage. Rotation goes like this; Living Bomb on every monster, then run into the fray, Dragon's Breath, Instant Flamestrike, Blastwave, another instant Flamestrike and then run out with flameblast and instant Pyroblasts. Although this build does pull a lot of threat, if you do forget to spec into Burning Soul you may have a few threat problems.
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Re: Fire PvP lack of talent points.

Post by Kyrro on Thu 12 Aug 2010, 3:42 pm

gracias!!!!!!
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